20/05/08

Terry, we are having problems white metalling a pair of ally rods from a Triumph motorcycle. We have recast the steel caps ok but the white metal will not take to the ally surface - can you help - is there a special flux?  regards Roger

Hi Roger, it is a completely different technique to tin alluminium / dural rods. No fux is used, instead a special solder is melted onto the surface and scratched through until it reacts with the rod surface. We have developed a technique and equipment that gives good results - Let me have the rods and I will recast them for you this week    Best regards Terry

13/04/08

Terry, I have ordered new big end bolts for the Sunbeam - do you need them to do the white metalling?  John.      Hi John, yes I do. Even a few tenths of a thou difference in stem diameter can put things out of line enough to cause a tight bearing.

31/03/08

Good Evening

I write as technical consultant to the Transport Museum
(www.bammot.org.uk for further info.) We are currently rebuilding one of the the Midland Red (home built in Birmingham) 8 litre K series diesel engines for a motorway coach under restoration. These use white metalled camshaft bearings (6 off, all different sizes to be
awkward!, but I have included a drg for one of them as an example). 
We  need to have more bearings made up including the machining of the
somewhat complex oil groove. Are you able to make up such bearings.
Kind Regards  Jeremy

Dear Jeremy,  thank you for the email and drawings - we are very interested in helping you.  There are several points that should be noted: 1) Hoyt 11D white metal is specified - we would recommend upgrading  to 11R. 2) We have found that an axial oil groove with a slot opposite the oil inlet maintains maximum lubrication while providing a stronger bearing. 3) After roughing and oil grooving etc, the 6 bearings would finally need to be bored in line and some tooling may need to be made to achieve this. Best regards Terry

03/03/08

Hello, Greetings from the States. I've have a Ford model A engine that is in need of new bearings.Here we still use the old Babbitt alloys and have to live with its short comings.For a while I was considering insert bearings but since American Model A's do not have an full pressure oil system -  I reconsidered, but there must be something better!When I found the research papers for Ecka's Tegostar 738 I knew I had found a better alloy.While I was researching I read that Ecka had bought Hoyt and that is how I found your site.I was pleased to see that you are engine re-builders!My questions are as follows:For my application which alloy would you recommend Tegostar 738, Hoyt 11R or Hoyt 11Z3 ?I can not seem to locate a retailer of Tegostar here. ( I am still looking for Hoyt vendors) Can you recommend a vendor in the U.K. ?Do you ship to the U.S. ? Thank You in advance,Robert

Dear Robert, thank you for your email. We use Hoyt 11R on Ford model A mains & big ends - it has always proved reliable. We can supply you with a 5/6 Kg ingot, which should be more than enough. We normally offer a recasting service for overseas customers, but this would not be practical with a cast in block bearing. We have also converted Model A mains to thin wall shells using AEB4319 (Renault) & AEB4302 (BL) but for best results prefer 11R

25/02/08

good day as an engineer and a collector of v twin motor bikes i have been frustrated at the situation regarding obsolete main bearings for the cx range of bikes as such i am looking at commisioning a batch of main bearingscan you do a quote as follows the original shells are 50.15 od ( nominal 50 mm housing bore)20mm wide46 mm id the new steel backs would need to obviously be +46 to allow for white metal, what is the minimum thickness of white metal that you are comfortable with? Most cranks generally clean up at 45.9mm but to allow for variations, i suggest a standard minimum bore of 49.7 the original bearings have a 3 mm oil groove and 6x 4mm holes on  the centre line.  I have a few concerns, 1     should we pre machine the oil groove so that white metal will go into it2     the od of 50.15 is quite critical, to allow for a good press fit in housing, during white metaling, will you get any shrinkage or contraction/ corrosion (rusting?) on the od3    the id, i need to rough machine undersize ensuring that absolute concentricity is maintained, as i finish bore the bearings in situ, and need a reference diametre in order to centralise the line borer. I normally put in the oil groove and oil holes when i rough machine bearings prior to fitting I have succesfully used this method for these types of bearings in the past , when i had my own engineering shop in africa, but i welcome any input or alternative suggestions the quantities i envisage will be in batches of 10 or 20.as discussed i can make/supply the backs if required. Perhaps a split mould for the exterior and core would be a good idea, certainly saves on waste white metal and possible heat distortion of the back let me have your thoughts and any provisional costings Mike france

Dear Mike,thank you for the email We are often asked to supply white metal bearings for modern engines as supplies of original shells dry up - to answer your questions: Optimum thickness of white metal is approx 0.020 to .030".  No less than 0.015" 1) Machine oil grooves into the parent metal but do not drill holes - the groove will fill up with white metal which can be machined out later. 2) Rust will not be a problem because the shell are protected at each stage. Your machined OD will be maintained but distortion will occur. Steps are be taken to keep distortion to a minimum and in practice it will not affect the final fit and quality as long as our refitting instructions are followed (see machine shop instructions on web site). The bearings will need to be nipped in to their housings and line bored to finish 3) We do the same ie: rough machine & oil groove in a lathe. You will need to make a dummy housing to hold the shells during roughing or serious distortion may occur. We have moulds & cores to suit.  I hope this is of interest Best regards Terry

13/02/08

 Hi.
can you help?.I have several Hoyt metal ingots sum the same as the ones
pictured on your web page and also sum larger bars.I am trying to research
them and the value of them.could you please let me know how much they are
worth.and would you be interested in buying them? I know that the bars came from a dis-used mine in north wales called halkyn and I think they would have been used for the repair of the mine equipment mainly the winding gear as when the mine closed the sheds and equipment was sentto the gold mine that i worked in in south wales called the dolaucothi gold mine.The sheds and equipment and winding gear was re-installed and returned to a working condition.They also had turning machines etc.some of the parts where sent to scrap.so I have a good feeling its obviously bearing grade white metal and has all the hoyt stamps etc.Please see the photo's attached.think there is a couple of small bars of magnesium.look forward to hearing from you. many thanks Dan

Dear Dan 

 The ingots appear to be the old Hoyt Star Brand. This is a lead based alloy designed for the economical repair of general machinery (electric motors, fans etc). unfortunately they would not be suitable for reliable engine bearings. Star brand is also suitable for railway carriage bearings etc - so they may be of interest to railway enthusiasts. I will post your email on our wesite as many of our customers also have an interest in steam
Good luck

Regards Terry  If anyone is interested please contact Dan direct (dcbowen@hotmail.com)

06/02/08

Hi Terry,
I like you website, very informative. I live in France & I want to effect the most economic solution to having my engine reconditioned, without having to ship the heavy parts to the UK..
This is a 1922 Anzani 4 cylinder engine, which needs 3 new main & 4 big end bearings pairs, the bearings shells are white metal, so these will probably need replacing as well. I picked up a leaflet of yours at Beulieau a couple of years ago, which shows you supply castings for other machine shops to finish & also that you make new bearing shells. Do you have any French association or a frequent purchaser of your bearings in France, who I could use to finish off the castings, as I don't have the necessary skills or machinery to bore the rough castings.
Drop me a line with your suggestions.
Best regards, Arthur

Dear Arthur, thank you for the email. (Coincidentally, we have recently completed one of these engines for another customer) Unfortunately, we do not have a regular contact in France. (The nearest is LMB Racing in Belgium, who visit us about once a month). I will post this email on our website and see if anyone responds

Please email if you can help with above  enquires@formhalls.com

01/02/08

Terry, you currently have my Austin 12 for big end remetalling. When you remove the crank for grinding could you have a good look at the mains to make sure all is well. Also, I need another set of rods for my second engine - do you know anyone who might have a set for sale? best regards Johney

Hi Johney, I will ask around for a set of rods, and put an advert on our For  sale / wanted page. Unfortunately your main do need re metalling, see photo below

Best regards Terry

20/01/08

Dear Terry,

would it be possible to come over and take some photos of my Lagonda 2L engine while it is being white metalled, for my cars log?     Regards, Hans

Dear Hans,

this would be difficult to coordinate because we always have a number of engines being processed at the same time. This means that your engine & parts could be inconveniently stored for photos and would therefore take some time to organise. I have already taken some photos (see below) and will post more as work progresses. Best regards   Terry

Lagonda 2L Mains before casting (above) -- after casting below

Below: Mains now rough machined ready for line boring

14/01/08

Hi Terry, we spoke earlier today about the damaged whitemetalling on my Bentley's big ends.

See the attachments above. (I might need to send the 4 photos with 4 separate e-mails) These photographs are focused on number 1 big-end, before & after disassembly, which is the most damaged of the 4. The bearings are thick wall shells. All the main bearings look fine.

I had expected the problem with traces of white metal in the oil changes to be due to the mains wearing as only the big-ends were re-metalled (with 11Z3 by xxxxxxxxxx) in 1992 when I last had the engine apart. However the mains are fine so I suspect the metalling of the big ends maybe wasn't done as well as it could be.

The car is a road car with a perfectly standard engine, only driven by me & has never been above 3000 revs as it has an overdrive fitted. It has done less than 25,000 miles since 1992 with annual oil changes of modern GTX 20/50, then of late fully synthetic oil. It is fitted with a modern oil filter and has 40 psi oil pressure at all times. The only reason I took it apart now is there were very slight traces of whitemetal in the last 2 changes.

I'd appreciate your comments on why the whitemetalling may have failed.

I understand you will need the 4 rods & caps, without pistons, plus accurate measurements of each big end journal

regards Brian

Dear Brian
thank you for the emails and phone call today.

 Judging by the photos the failure is due to cracking of the white metal which can be caused by either:
1) rapid changes in stress - 4 cyl Bentley big ends are prone to this and need a white metal with the correct balance between ductility and hardness. We find Hoyt 11Z3 gives the best results. Also, a thin layer of white metal (about 0.020") is strongest

 2) Thermal cracking, due to overheating - Bentley originally had very close side clearances (0.002") which we now know to be detrimental, as it tends to restrict the flow of cooling oil through the bearing. We give a slightly larger clearance of 0.005" +

 3) Fretting (movement) of the bearing due to incorrect fitting. The shells must be nipped in to ensure they are an interference fit in the con rod - Also, Bentley big end bolts can be awkward to hold during tightening and therefore not achieve their correct torque, leaving the shells loose.

 best regards  Terry